Reefton Jack

Joined 20 years ago

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Posts by Reefton Jack

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  8

  F.Franz in court - english meaning

  by mineralogist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  18 years ago

  (q): can you, yourself, translate that into hebrew?.

  (q): that fourth verse of the second chapter of genesis?.

  (a): no, i won't attempt to do that.. what franz "wouldn't attempt" to translate into hebrew is what many have said as a simple exercise an average first or second-year hebrew student in seminary would be able to do.

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  18 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 18 years ago

  Why else would F.W. Franz decline to translate from Hebrew into English - if for no other reason that that he could not?

  As for the claim that translating your own native language into another is more difficult than the reverse:

  - all I can say is that I use a foreign language in my everyday work; and have at no time found it any more difficult to translate English into Tok Pisin, than I have at translating Tok Pisin into English.

  Mi ting ting Frederick Franz, em tok giaman - em tok giaman tru!

  If, as some claim, the NWT is a reasonably accurate translation - then F.W. Franz must have got that right in spite of himself.

  Jack.

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  51

  Aussies/Canadians of JWD most laid back~

  by FlyingHighNow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  19 years ago

  i was thinking today, i've been here at jwd for nearly three years now.

  i've observed that our aussie members are the most laid back members on the board here.they don't take their country, their politics or anything too seriously really.

  people who are from europe tend to be more laid back than the brits and americans.

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  11 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  I have just finished reading Dansk's view of the world. One thing there was quite correct - SOMEONE has got their brains caved in! Jack.

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  8

  How many cars were bought to last until Armageddon

  by sspo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  19 years ago

  i never did, never had the faith that it would come in my lifetime.

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  I actually knew of a set of tyres that were supposed to see the car through to the end, according to the Elder that drove this certain Fiat 125.

  The year was, you might have guessed it - 1975.

  Jack.

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  17

  The first signals of doubt?

  by The wanderer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  19 years ago

  the watchtower and the deciding factors

  can you recall the very first inner voices of doubt that.

  you carried about the watchtower society?

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  For me, it was 1975:

  - Firstly, all the hype that there was in the nine years leading up to that.

  - Then, when the year came and went; the total silence about it on the part of the WTS. Not even any attempt at an explanation, just like the whole business had never happened.

  I think that my feelings at first were total confusion. Then, comments from one of the elders in our congregation rang warning bells. This brother was a former missionary (Gilead trained), a former District Overseer, and at that point had been "in the truth" for over 30 odd years. He one day remarked that "the Society has just got to admit that they were wrong over the issue of 1975."

  That comment somehow didn't add up:

  - i.e.

  (i) That somehow "we may be wrong, but we are still right."

  AND FURTHERMORE

  (ii) "While others may not be wrong, we are still the only ones who are right!"

  I would readily volunteer that I went through a long period of denial. But over the years, this had a snow-balling effect that in the end could not be denied any more. Such things as the WTS trying to rewrite history; no love amongst themselves (that they kept saying that they had this,and that no one else did); no collection plate, but still a lot of talk from the platform about money.

  But it was 1975 and the way that it was handled that started the process.

  Jack.

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  16

  We don't pass the plate, we just demand the $$

  by lost_light06 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  19 years ago

  the other night during the announcements between the ministry school and service meeting there was a letter read.

  i pretty much tuned out the whole thing but what did catch my ear was the request that $4.50 per publisher be contributed by each cong.

  for whatever bogus committee the letter was dealing with (sorry i cant be more specific, i honestly dont remember what it was for).

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  It was this sort of talk that was nearly the final straw for me some 15 - 20 years ago.

  The WTS was always on about "Materialism" (even though many of the R&F had no idea what the term actually meant!). No one was supposed to have money - except when the congregation needed it, like when they wanted to build a new Kingdom Hall or Assembly Hall.

  Then, all those who were told that they should not have money were supposed to suddenly come up with the necessary funds.

  If these funds were slow in appearing, then condemnatory talks from the platform followed, until they were!

  Jack.

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  47

  A Fair View of Fred Franz' Translation Abilities

  by IW in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  19 years ago

  i thought these comments on channel c were fair views of fred franz' translation, not to mention a little surprising.

  a breath of fresh air.

  http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=no&board=main&mode=current&message=21782.

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  At the time of the Walsh case in 1954, work on the New World Translation would have been in progress. Therefore, the linguistic skills that F.W. Franz displayed at that court case serve as a fair indicator of those that he had while the NWT was being compiled.

  (It is possible that his knowledge of Hebrew and Common Greek may have improved over the decades following those events).

  I myself have studied a number of foreign languages, and use one in particular during my everyday work. In saying this, I am not claiming scholarship (certainly not!) - just a reasonable working knowledge of the language.

  From that, though, I do have a problem with the claim that - for an amateur at least - it is much harder to translate English into a foreign language than it is to do the opposite. Speaking from my own experience, I have never at any time had any more difficulty translating English into a foreign language, than I have in working the other way around. The two just seemed to naturally go hand in hand.

  However, I don't intend to be dragged into a #$tfight over that issue!

  Rather, if F.W. Franz's inability to translate a verse from English into Hebrew marked him as an amateur, then that still poses a problem:

  - Should the translation of something as important as the bible be entrusted to an amateur?

  It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the NWT - and if Franz did indeed end up with a reasonably accurate translation, then it would seem that he managed to do so in spite of himself!

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  24

  UNDER AGE DRINKING IN JWS?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  19 years ago

  .

  i understand from another thread that there were instances of this.. know any?

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  It gives me no satisfaction to recall that I knew of numerous instances in which this was actually encouraged - so that a young person would / could "develop a taste for the stuff."

  I "developed a taste" for the booze all-right; well before my 18th birthday.

  Jack.

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  47

  What's your present belief ?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  19 years ago

  .

  without attacking anyone for their beliefs, feel free to state what you believe in right now.. personally, i still believe in a higher power, a creator, call him jehovah if you wish, a god that will put things back right eventually.

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  I keep an open mind on this matter - but so far, since breaking with the dubs 12 years ago, I have been non-religious.

  Jack.

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  18

  NOT accepting appointments/privileges

  by Alligator Wisdom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  19 years ago

  i declined appointment to become an elder in two different congregations.

  boy, was the elder body and co not happy about that!.

  have any of you done so for any appointments (elder, ms, special pioneer)?

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  Things must now be quite different to what was the case 20 - 25 years ago!

  Then, the congregations had a huge mob of Wanabees, climbing over each other for appointment.

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  22

  A Connection Between Sickness and JW Lifestyle

  by choosing life in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  19 years ago

  i've noticed several people on this board mention they have fms and similar type afflictions.

  fms is known to be brought about by physical/emotional stress.

  i have suffered from it for many years.

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  19 years ago
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  Reefton Jack 19 years ago

  I know that I have said this before on another post, but I think it is relevant to this discussion, also.

  When I was with the JWs, it was known that 5% of the circuit suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. (Incidently, this went through a succession of different names; starting with the total misnomer "Tapanui Flu", then "ME" or "Myalgic Encephalitis", followed by "CFS / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" - and for all I know they may now have yet another name for the illness!)

  The interesting point that I find is that, in the 12 years since I broke with the JWs, I have yet to meet one person who suffers from this illness.

  5% of the JW population versus 0% of everybody else that I know - what does that tell you?

  Jack.

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